My advice to the person was to wait till they get something in writing because I don't trust verbal agreements: they are worth the same as the paper they are written on. But this means they are going to give their boss only 2 weeks notice. Do they trust the verbal agreement and tell their boss asap, or do they wait till they get something in writing? What do you think?
Listening to: Swollen Members - Bad Dreams
So let's get down to the real issue, shall we? The real issue is that if Job #2 bails at the last minute on a verbal agreement, this person still wants to keep Job #1 right?
ReplyDeleteWell, they are going to quit Job #1 anyway to take Job #2. Why not just tell Job #1 boss that yes, I went through a long approval process and got my dream job. They want me to start in 4 weeks but the paperwork hasn't gone through yet, so I'm a little hestitant to quit this Job (#1).
Give your boss the heads up and he'll appreciate it. Blindside him, and there goes your reference. True, he only requires 2 weeks notice ... but that's a jackass move. Treat him with some respect and you'll get a good reference. Keep him in the loop.
In the meantime tell Job #2 to get their shit together. Tell them you need a "letter of intent to hire" for your landlord or something, that's standard procedure as far as I know. I'd also tell them that you'll start working two weeks AFTER you sign something, giving you enough time to quit Job #1 gracefully. Job #2 doesn't like people leaving on bad terms either, so they'll understand that.
So two things can happen:
1. You tell your Job #1 boss you're leaving. You sign with Job #2. Two weeks later you move to Job #2.
2. You tell your Job #1 boss you're leaving. Job #2 drops the ball and can't hire you. You don't sign anything. Tell your Job #1 boss immediately and keep Job #1.
There's no reason to treat this situation like it's a battle royale against adversaries. People move around all the time, it's part of work and life. Keep the communication open and you'll have a much smoother ride with Job #1. Unless you get a real jackass of a boss (it happens, you might want legal advice), he'll understand.
DO NOT BASE ANYTHING ON A VERBAL AGREEMENT.
ReplyDeleteTrust me. Been there, done that, back is still sore from bending over.
I'd wait until three or four weeks before starting Job #2 to inform Job #1 and only after signing a legally binding contract agreement.
I definitely think that it's a good idea to tell your boss as soon as possible if your going to be leaving. Especially if it's for a skilled position. It can take them a while to find someone to fill your shoes. However, until you get something in writing, make sure that you're boss is aware, that it's only a possibility, and it doesn't mean that you're leaving for sure, just giving him warning in case it happens.
ReplyDeleteI spoke to my friend again, and they figure that it's only a couple of days till they get something in writing so they will wait till they do.
ReplyDeleteThey don't want to run the risk of not having any job, even if it's at the expense of a couple of days for their boss.
I think that it's really a tough decision that depends on what's happening at the time, but being open and honest is always good default behaviour.
First of all, can you quit using the pronoun 'they' as a singular. The general form of the pronoun 'he' was invented for the purpose, so go ahead and use it. Those of you who are about to argue that the person may be a female have no point. I said "general form", so take it easy. And, if you don't like the slippery slope of the pronoun 'he', then you can use the pronoun 'ou' (i think that's it, anyway), thanks to Kibbee's research.
ReplyDeleteAs for the issue, i've been fucked around myself by this issue. There are standards for a reason, and following a standard can thus arrouse no emotion by the #1 boss. Thus, 'your friend' (aka You!) should wait until *he* has a *written contract* and then give a formal 2-weeks notice. That's what is *fair* to all three parties.
English sucks in the fact that there are no singular gender neutral pronouns. They only exist in the plural because, a group of people is assumed to have no specific gender. This is why people end up using the plural. Of course, when I learned french, If i remember correctly, we used Il, and Ils when the gender was unknown or mixed (in the plural case). I think the only use of Elles, was when it was specifically a group of females.
ReplyDeleteYou might want to check out this link: http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=454684 for more explanations and alternative gender neutral pronouns.
Grammar and spelling have no place in this blog!!
ReplyDeleteJust kidding. (or am I?) I know communication is very important, but I'm just pounding out ideas here... this isn't where I spend the extra effort for polish. If you want to read something well written, go read Ryan.
Depends on your relationship with your boss. If you get along well and they've done a lot to have you there, then you should at least give them a head's up that there's a possibility of accepting another job; that's just human decency. However, if they're not going to be nice about it (inhuman), then give the minimum two weeks.
ReplyDeleteWhoa, that's a pretty broad definition of 'human decency', and 'inhumane', for that matter!
ReplyDeleteUnder that definition, i'm not sure that there exist decent, humane humans. I'd also like to point out that *business* is not everyday life. Let's be serious: business is a competition where one business is put against the next, and, within businesses, subordinates are put against managers. That's why there are negotiable contracts where each party tries to get the most out of it (at the expense of the other, naturally). I'd love to liv in a society where when Nortel (the company, not the person) offers you a job, they actually give you a contract; where Provence actually follow through on their word; or where the government doesn't put CS workers under the category of Mailboy Supervisor so it can pay them 75% of what declared CS works are getting paid. Unfortunately, that's not this world. Perhaps your workplace is special and stuff like this doesn't happen. In that case, i would agree with Jan, and after you quit you can all go out for tea. But, if you aren't *absolutely* sure that your workplace will respond in this way, assume they are like the rest of the businesses out there. Otherwise, i hope your (un)employment insurance is paid up.
Cooter.
So to summarize the general feel around here: It's important to know your legal obligations as well as theirs, but it's also important not to be a dick.
ReplyDeleteI like to think that the law is there to back me up, not to dictate how I should treat people.
I agree entirely, Ryan. I just wish that corporate NAmerica followed suit.
ReplyDeleteCooter.